Plus Size Bodies, What Is Wrong With Them Anyway?
In the January 2012 issue of PLUS Model Magazine, plus-size model Katya Zharkova is featured in an explosive editorial where thought provoking statistics and statements are revealed.
*Check out all the images here*
- Twenty years ago the average fashion model weighed 8% less than the average woman. Today, she weighs 23% less.
- Ten years ago plus-size models averaged between size 12 and 18. Today the need for size diversity within the plus-size modeling industry continues to be questioned. The majority of plus-size models on agency boards are between a size 6 and 14, while the customers continue to express their dissatisfaction.
- Most runway models meet the Body Mass Index physical criteria for Anorexia.
- 50% of women wear a size 14 or larger, but most standard clothing outlets cater to sizes 14 or smaller.
If we continue to ignore and rely on others to decide what we want to see, change will never happen. We have to be vocal and proactive, patient and realistic.
Tips on how we can help create change:
- Support the companies who market to you.
- Use social networking sites and email to let brands and designers know how you feel about clothing, options and the use of straight sized models (thin models) to market to you.
- Your dollars count! If you stop buying at “Store A” and let them know you will not be purchasing clothing until they market to you, this will raise concern.
- Use every avenue and opportunity you have available to you for your voice to be heard.
- Indie designers need our support.
The answer to the question is this, there is nothing wrong with our bodies. We are bombarded with weight-loss ads every single day, multiple times a day because it’s a multi-billion dollar industry that preys on the fear of being fat. Not everyone is meant to be skinny, our bodies are beautiful and we are not talking about health here because not every skinny person is healthy.
Don’t forget to check out the entire feature by clicking HERE!
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About 4 years ago,I started a “plus size,any size,average people styled …” modelling agency with a photographer friend of mine in Toronto.We named it Click models IN Canada, a few months later I had an agency in the US saying I could not use that name and threatened to sue us. The funny thing is that they did NOT offer PLUS size models AT ALL and I felt we started something! and we did, CBC the National picked up the story and it went all over Canada, months later ALL of these agencies then starting USING plus models. I wanted to create a hype and I feel I did. For those of you who want to read the article, go to
http://www.cbc.ca/news/story/2007/03/14/calgary-models.html
It goes to show us all that WE CAN make a change and I am happy to see PLUS magazine around which proves my point that we are all beautiful, JUST the way we are!
What bothers me the most about retail stores is that they have their plus size aka women’s sizes posted next to the maternity wear. Being six foot tall, it is hard enough finding clothes that fit me correctly but it really hurts to pick up a sexy dress or blouse only to look at the tag and it says “Mother Wear” or “Maternity For You.” Seriously? My other beef is that women’s clothes are often marked up higher than their exact same junior wear counterparts. Are you seriously going to tell me that the extra fabric it look to make my garment is $10-$20 more than the one that is just a few isles down? And the mannequins in the stores; really; really you actually think that some of those baggy sweaters are really calling out my name? Wake up retail. Women have more disposable income and we don’t have to ask permission to use it. I don’t want to hide my shape under baggy clothes or splatter my body with fake glitter on a t-shirt. I want high quality clothes that I can use in all parts of my life, not just the gym.
There are so many wonderful comments regarding this article and I hope you will appreciate mine as well. I have been a “big girl” my whole life, steadily increasing in size as I’ve aged. I’m now 31 and am planning a family. It is very important to me that my children know what it is to have healthy, active parents. I have been seriously looking at my life these past few months and making changes that will accomplish that goal.
However, I have an overall sense of “fat pride” from some of the other comments and while I have always been fairly confident in who I am, I think that it needs to stop being an issue of BIG vs. LITTLE and become an issue of healthy living and well being. If we are living healthy life styles and giving our bodies what they need, while indulging our minds on occasion, then we will be the size we’re supposed to be and the clothing industry just needs to accept that.
That being said, I have been exercising and eating right, and by extension losing weight. I have also been applying a “stop talking about it and just do it ” mentally to every aspect of life from my job to my home to my marriage to my own mind and you know what? My house and desk are cleaner, we are putting in a garden and landscaping our yard, we are making healthier food choices and spending our time together being more active, and best of all my husband and I are happier!
I had to accept that regardless of my size I was loved and those that loved me didn’t care if I was big or little, I had to be happy with me! A friend saw me the other day and said “Wow you look fantastic, the best you have ever looked. What are you doing?” I replied “I’m living life the way it was meant to be lived.” “But you’ve lost so much weight, what’s the secret?” “No secret, just good clean fun.” It doesn’t matter what size you are or what the big bad marketers tell us we need to be or look like. We need to be who we are and be ok with it. If you aren’t, only you can change it.
At my heaviest I was knocking on a size 26, now I’m happily wearing 18/20′s, I look better in my clothes and shopping is much more fun, not because some advertisement tells me so but because I FEEL better. It really comes down to how you feel about yourself, I’ve always put on a confident front but in reality I needed to be comfortable in my own skin and comfortable with where and how my life was moving forward, that’s what I have now! If that means I will continue to lose weight and get smaller, so be it. If not, then the marketers of the world can just kiss my ass!
eezzed,
Your hatred and bigotry – let’s call it what it is – shows not only a lack of empathy for your fellow human beings but also a lack of understanding of obesity and eating disorders. For the record – and you can ask any reputable doctor about this and they’ll tell you – obesity is not caused by an eating disorder every time, all the time. And when it is caused by an eating disorder, it is true that it is psychologically and emotionally based. What is also true is those problems are more likely than not caught up with shame. So, you know, this whole idea you seem to have, that fat people should be ashamed, that they are selfish, etc, etc – is counter-productive. So if you truly care about the “obesity epidemic,” perhaps you should rethink your methods of expressing that concern. Especially when you seem to need to come to a website of a publication that is marketed specifically to the demographic you seem so intent on shaming.
I find it quite funny that so many women are going on about how they love their bodies and that others should accept their bodies and how all bodies can be beautiful, but then continue on to bash those who are skinny. I’m fine with a woman being overweight, although it seems like a serious case of denial when every obese woman tries to claim she’s still “healthy”, but I guess that’s not my business. And then in the same breath, half of you are going on about how girls are “too skinny” and unattractive and unhealthy. Seems like you’re defeating your own plight. Saying someone’s “too thin” is just as insulting as saying someone’s “too fat”. Or as someone so gracefully put it, “it’s no fun looking for a handhold on a board.” Really ladies? Do you think that’s an appropriate thing to say? If I said something about a large woman being sexually unfit, would that be okay? If we can be beautiful and healthy at a large size and we can blame it on genetics, shouldn’t the same be true of a small size? Personally, I know it varies depending on the individual. Just as there can be a size 18 woman who’s healthy and in shape, there can be a size 2 woman who’s not starving herself and is equally beautiful. Personally, I refuse to cater to the standard excuses. I’ve gained weight while I was pregnant, and then worked my butt off to lose it. I just recently battled with thyroid cancer, and over the entire process I did put on about 40 pounds, despite a healthy diet and regular exercise. But once it was over with, I realized the whole thyroid excuse wouldn’t last forever, I sucked it up and lost the weight. Now I’m back to a happy, healthy size 8, which is pretty much middle of the road. And on top of this, I come from a family of large women. In fact, I’m probably the smallest in my family. I also choose not to live the same lifestyle as that of my family members.
My point is that you can’t place blame on anyone but yourself. Yes, it’s hard work. If you choose not to do the work that’s perfectly fine, but don’t expect the world to cater to you. Also, I’m completely for loving yourself and your own body. I don’t think you should let your body keep you from happiness or self acceptance. But if you truly believed that women can be beautiful no matter the size, than you wouldn’t have a problem with a very thin woman being praised as beautiful as well. I’ve seen gorgeous size 20 women, and gorgeous size 0 women, and gorgeous size 10 women. Don’t go on about bodily love if your love only extends to one side of the spectrum. Don’t insult thin women just because they’re thin, it really just shows your own insecurity.
And one more note. I’ve seen Marilyn Monroe mentioned a couple of times in this thread. Yes she was a size 14, but it wasn’t in her “heyday”. She was a size 14 when she was at her heaviest, and despite what many of you seem to think, she caught a lot of flack about it and lost the weight pretty quickly. Not to mention size were different back then. A size 14 then would be roughly a size 8 or 10 today. Sorry to burst the bubble, but even in the golden age of Hollywood, Tinsel Town wasn’t down with a larger sex symbol.
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Promoting a positive body image in women….while showing a blatantly computer edited, air brushed picture of a model. The hypocrisy is suffocating.
I had received a Just My Size sweater for Christmas from my girl friend and at first I was mad and offended. And that is the fault of fashion magazines and television for drilling it into my head for 30+ years that anything over size 5 is considered fat. She keeps telling me I am not fat and I am trying very hard to deprogram my way of thinking. Everyone is beautiful in their own way. And it ills me that when I shop for clothing I can’t find a size to fit me correctly. I tried Lane Bryant. I have a Lane Bryant butt, but not Lane Bryant boobs. I am tired of searching high and low. I found the best way to find clothes that fit is to go to the local thrift store. They have more selection! Go figure.
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What’s important is your health. Go to the doctor and tell the him/her you want to get healthy. Insist that you have your cholesterol, thyroid, and heart checked (ultrasound), determine if you have the MTHFR genetic defect (most doctors don’t know about this). If you do, the doctor should put you on methylated folic acid and methylated B12. This will help with your energy and mental state. Get a sleep study done. Insist on it. Again most doctors don’t know enough about it to suggest it. If you have sleep Apnea or sleep obstruction, no matter what you do you won’t be able to get healthy. Go to a nutritionist. Let them help you to start eating correctly. Start to exercise, walk to the end of the block and back if that’s all you can do. Your stamina will increase. Don’t let anyone say you are weak because you can’t do this on your own. It’s easier to do this with a group. Have supportive people around. Remove those people from you life that bring you down. Getting healthy may take 1-2 years or longer. Every day you are able to more in a forward direction toward health, no matter how small, you will feel better. And remember some days you will fall off the horse, that’s when you need people to help you get back on and more forward. Put yourself as a priority. Nora
right. so, i was morbidly obese. i am now in the overweight range. i’ve come to a few realizations about this whole body image thing. it’s all in your attitude. but let’s talk about health for a moment. when doctors take the Hippocratic oath, they’re not saying “i’ll tell people they are ugly if they are too fat and make them feel bad about themselves” . all those registered dieticians did not go into the field so they could make money by telling people they were fat and should feel bad about themselves, but because they might actually know what they are talking about and want to help people.
if this article is saying you should feel pretty at any size, fine. but don’t tell me you’re obese and healthy. we have a twisted sense of what healthy is in this country and an even more twisted sense of what people are allowed to say about it. for example: why can’t i tell you that i’m worried about you because you eat too much and have gained an awful lot of weight in the past year…i just care about you as a friend. no, it’s totally fine to tell someone they’ve lost too much weight and you care about their health, but god forbid i should point out that you’re going to kill yourself with too much food, rather than too little.
seriously. with all of today’s advances in the medical industry, don’t you think the BMI scale would have changed? it hasn’t. probably there is a reason for that. you’re probably just feeling bad about your choices. put down the latte. pick up the tea and get your ass on a treadmill, because you are the problem. not the fashion industry. not the doctors. stop looking for a scapegoat.
I have been over weight all my life. In fact my mother told me that my pediatrician told her when I was just 3 days old that I was too heavy and she needed to be careful how much she fed me. It has been a real struggle to learn to love myself because I have literally been told my entire life that I am simply just not good enough because I’m fat (I’m 42).
The fact is that I am good enough and my weight does not define who I am.
Those making comments about plus size being a health issue has no place in this forum as that is not the issue here. The issue is that no one should be made to feel inferior because of what you look like. That is what plus size people are fighting for. That is what is happening in the media. A person’s health is their own concern and for no one else to judge or decide for them.
We live in a world where perfection is admirable and desired. Women are constantly fighting with themselves to obtain this so called “ideal.” But what would happen if we understood that beauty is not perfection nor an ideology but a reality that resides in all women.
The reason for the lack of structure and design in plus size clothing is because it is more difficult. A woman’s body has a basic shape and in smaller sizes that shape is generally maintained in a standard proportion but once a woman starts to gain weight that shape is distorted. Weight gain isn’t uniform, so every woman ends up a different large shape. In order to produce large quantities of clothes a designer and store have to go with the style that will fit the most people and for overweight people it tends to be shapeless and unstructured. To this end, smaller women with long torsos or large breast or the like have difficulty finding clothes because they, too, do not fit the standard proportions.
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Anorexia is a serious mental health disorder, not a category on the BMI. It would’ve been just as easy, and far more accurate, to say that most models are underweight according to the BMI. Anorexia and underweight are not interchangeable terms.
When I posted this article on a modeling website, people weren’t happy. Know this about Plus Size Models in the Industry. I am talking about the ones that don’t go in the stores and buy Plus Sized fashions and model the fashions we wear and the photographers that shoot them. They don’t like Plus Sized Women. They think you are promoting obesity. They don’t like the way you look. They think you don’t take care of yourself. They are not supportive of fat acceptance, body acceptance, or the plus size consumer movement. If you wear a size 20 or larger they think it is not normal. They think models that are a size 20+, don’t exist. Or, if they do they are only used to be made fun of. They think you should be a size 6 to 16 to be a Plus Size Model and 5’9” and over. When you promote them and buy clothes from vendors that use their sizes, you are putting money in their pockets? Why put money in pockets for people that just laugh at who you are?
No I don’t agree with the reverse bashing in the article, but what I read on the modeling site about plus sized women and what happened to me after I posted it. I am done with shoppng with vendors who use women that can’t even fit into our clothes, or use the models who make fun of others. It might not be everyone, but I know who is.
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Admittedly, I did not read every single comment about this article. However, I read enough to see how absolutely silly some of them are. I saw a link to this article on Facebook, with comments praising it so I decided to take a look. As you can probably imagine, the praise was to the effect of “I’ve always thought models were too skinny.” and “How great that bigger women are being encouraged to accept themselves!”
Even if that is not the message the articled intends to send, I think it’s fairly apparent that it’s the message the majority of larger women see. It then DOES become more about the “fat vs. thin” argument and “weight vs. health”, doesn’t it? It becomes something that validates them.
I am a thin person, with a very petite frame. I’m quite short, small-breasted, nearly hip-less and have a short torso. I have never tried to be thin by starving myself or dieting. I used to be able to eat whatever I wanted with no regard to weight gain, but coming from a family where 9 out of 10 women are quite overweight, I also realized that I can’t do that forever as eventually it may cause me to also be unhealthily overweight. I don’t diet, but I do try to eat in a healthy manner (and not to stay thin, actually, as I lose weight much too easily) because heart disease runs in my family. I’ve been accused of having an eating disorder, even by strangers! While that is frustrating, I realize that my thin appearance is something that might make someone wonder. I try to eat enough calories to maintain a healthy weight, which would mean gaining at least ten pounds (a good bit on such a small person), but it proves difficult to eat that much food. I also struggle with an anxiety disorder (no, not an eating disorder) and I think that probably compounds my trouble with gaining/maintaining weight.
I have a lot of trouble finding clothing that fits properly simply because I’m so small, and even stores to who Petite sizing carry very little clothing in very few styles. Trying to find an affordable bra is nearly impossible due to the oddball size (32B, where most stores may carry only a few 32A and 34A, and most sizes are 34B and up). Shirts don’t fit properly, skirts usually have flares where my hips ‘should’ be but actually end up on my thighs. Pant waistbands are too high unless I buy very low rise, and the crotch is most knits is much too long. My point here is that, even though I find it very difficult to find clothing and can be frustrating, I don’t expect stores to cater to my sizing because I understand that I fall into the minority and it’s more economical for brands to design clothing to fit certain proportions. If that is the case, then why should they be expected to cater to the larger women who are just as difficult to fit properly, either? That is exactly why specialty stores exist for both plus size and petite. They don’t have to work on carrying the mid-sizes while still trying to fit those of us who have very different proportions (some overweight women have small breasts and large hips, some petite women have large breasts and small hips, etc).
Since so much of the response to this article has turned to how unfair it is to be judged for one’s weight and how weight affects health, I will say this. While it’s true that overweight women are quickly becoming the average, I think it’s impractical to expect those who don’t fall into that category to subscribe to the growing number of trite excuses for said obesity. True, a small percentage of people really DO have health issues that cause them to gain weight easily, or have a harder time losing it, or that prevent them from exercising in order to facilitate weight loss.
Let’s get real, here, ladies. MOST overweight people do NOT have these issues. In fact, I wonder if the ones who do have them find it insulting when they hear the majority spout such non-sense as it sort of makes them look bad, doesn’t it? It is a deterrent to helping other people understand that the minority actually do have legitimate health issues causing their weight loss.
I’ve seen comments that imply (or blatantly state) that because I’m not overweight, I should not dare to read this article or have an opinion. I guess, then, since those people aren’t thin, they should not dare to talk about the thin people they hate so much.
If you want to argue that I say that because I don’t know the “plight” of being overweight firsthand, I will tell you about what I see the women (and the men!) in my family eat/do/not do which very obviously DOES cause their weight problems, as well as their high blood pressure, diabetes and heart disease. They eat the wrong foods, or the wrong portions, and do not put in the work that it may take for them (depending on their natural metabolism, etc) to maintain a healthy weight. And yes, some women are still healthy at a larger size, but that size usually will not reach beyond an 18.
If this article is stating that plus sized models are unrealistic in comparison to the average plus size woman, that is probably true, but it is also true that if you have a very large foot, you will require a brand who specializes in very large shoes. The difference is that, while a small percentage of plus size women can not help their body size any more than a person with a large foot can help the size of their feet, the majority of plus size women simply do not want to do what is necessary to maintain a healthy (and what used to be the average, even without starvation) weight (thinking Marilyn Monroe here, as she was not scrawny but was not large in her popular days).
We live in a society that encourages us to have poor opinions of drug and alcohol addiction, or sexual issues, or extreme mental health problems, yet tells us that saying someone eats too much is wrong because it’s hurtful. If someone can say I’m crazy because I have anxiety and that is considered socially acceptable and even as a light way of putting it (I do not take offense to the term, by the way), or that I’m too thin, then why is it unacceptable for me to state that they are fat without having a swarm of overweight people tell me I don’t “accept them” as they are? Why is it fine for an overweight person to call a drug addict a junkie and think of that as a negative thing to be as it’s unhealthy and stressful for the people who love them, yet it’s “uncouth” to call an overweight person (who obviously does not have health issues to cause obesity fat) and find it to be a negative thing because it’s unhealthy (generally speaking, though some mildly overweight people can be fit as anyone else) and is stressful for the people who love them?
I think what MOST of the posters who are subscribing to “it’s not my fault” are missing is that it is not usually the ‘health issue causing obesity’ minority of overweight people who are being spoken to. It is the ones who deny that they have any part in their obesity while eating a bag of Oreos after going through some fast-food drive-thru and screaming that no one should DARE say anything about them being overweight (including their loved ones), and insulting women who are naturally thin. We don’t all starve ourselves and it’s more frustrating than you seem to comprehend, to try to gain weight and be unable to do so.
To those of you aforementioned, perhaps you should cut the B.S. and spend less time sitting in front of your computer, complaining about how people judge you so harshly while eating food that you KNOW is making you overweight and instead go buy some produce and hit the treadmill. Most of us who “hate on you” (as you would tell it) are sick and tired of hearing about how terrible we are because we don’t encourage your bad behavior any more than we do an alcoholic. If a doctor tells a junkie that his habit will kill him, people applaud that, but if a doctor tells an obese person who has no contributing health issues to lose weight because their ‘habit’ will kill them, then they think he’s an a**hole. It’s stupidly ironic. The fact that you’re overweight does not anger me (it’s your business, but don’t expect people not to notice it), but the ‘how dare you because you’re skinny’ attitude conveyed in some of the comments I’ve read here does.
@ Disturbed:
Do you even realize how disturbing your own comment is? How much bigotry and discrimination is embodied in it? How much hatred you must have for people that are not thin like you? Have you looked back at it and can recognize how many assumptions you’ve made about people you don’t even know? How many generalizations you’ve made? Do you realize you’re part of the problem? I highly doubt it, but thought I’d point that out.
There are several problems with the percentages/statistics presented here. First, Women 20+ years ago were generally smaller than they are now, that’s why models were only “8%” smaller than the average woman. I agree that there do exist sad standards for runway models (not by all agencies, mind you). Another issue is that, whether you like it or not, there IS an overweight crisis. I’m not refering to being curvy, or voluptuous, but to the women who are overweight to the point it is unhealthy. I myself am “overweight,” but the funny thing is that I’m much healthier than I used to be (mainly because I used to try to conform to the supermodel ideal). I’m not overweight to that negative degree by any means. I think that all sizes should be represented on runways, in catalogs, and in stores (go Maurices!!). Wafer-thin women DO exist naturally, I have a sister who is very thin, and coworkers who were born without curves. So being thin isn’t the problem, it’s portraying only one section of women in society that is the problem.
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Depending on how big a woman really is, and how she carries her weight, SOME plus size women CAN be fairly attractive. Honestly, those are few and far between. Most overweight women that I see on a daily basis are pretty unattractive, but that’s just my opinion. Back fat and rolls around the neck, midsection etc. just isn’t very pleasing to the eye..just being honest.
You say that ‘larger’ women should not be expected to respond to pictures of smaller women – when the opposite would also advocate the same response. But you also say that models are not forms that any woman can identify with, so how do you expect a smaller woman (as you suggest my size 8 self is) to identify themselves either when they are apparently ‘larger’ than models? If what you say is true which, I am not indicating otherwise, then it is unfair to objectify size 6-8 women when they are bigger than models too, neither can they like you help their smaller frame. Size 6-8 women that are not skelatal cannot response to pictures of models either so where does that leave them?
@ Mary
I think you missed the point of my comment, which was that I saw just as much “hate” coming toward those of us who happen to have trouble gaining weight (i.e. the implication that we must be anorexic) as anything else being said. Unfortunately, the people who spout it are usually NOT those who legitimately have health issues which contribute to their weight issues but rather those who simply do not do the work required to get to a healthy weight. If those people think that “naturally thin” people starve themselves, it is likely out of their own insecurity about their size and their lack of effort to change that. I clearly stated multiple times that it is NOT the people who have contributing health issues that I was speaking to, as I understand that the minority of overweight people do have them and that it must be as frustrating as it is for me (being overly thin despite efforts to gain weight). It’s a bit like “reverse racism”, wherein one race complains about being singled out and treated differently, and then turns around and sets themselves apart as a group while speaking poorly of the people they’re asking to treat them as equals. The comments I was referring to were similar, “reverse weight-ism”, if you will. As an aside, overweight people I know personally have told me frankly, “I hate skinny b*tches.” and those are ALWAYS the ones I see eating poorly, not exercising and not putting forth the effort. They have never been those who legitimately have contributing health issues, and those who do have them are generally understanding of my own struggle with being underweight. I could care less if you or anyone else is overweight, but I do care about the ridiculous double standards in terms of the way extremes of weight are looked at by many of the posters here. If you took such offense, I can only assume that you either missed the point or that you fall into the ‘denial’ group. If the case is the former, then hopefully you comprehend my earlier post now. I used extreme sarcasm in my post to convey how insulting and ridiculous some of the posters here have been because I don’t think they understand at all how nasty they sound. Perhaps it comes from being ridiculed for their weight, but it’s just as unfair, isn’t it?
No matter the case, this article in and of itself spins facts to suit it’s author (as most writings do no matter what the topic or the writer) and it plays into a trend that is unhealthy and unrealistic. Women used to be smaller in general, and it’s not genetics or health issues that has caused the average weight to be higher. That’s why the percentage in average model size is so different now. It’s bad habits for the most part and if doctors and health officials are saying this, there’s probably some merit to it.
@ Disturbed
I understand the point you were trying to get across, I do. But just like most people with good intentions (and I’m giving you the benefit of the doubt, here), you don’t seem to understand the full situation or the full implications of your words, and are speaking from that ignorance.
First of all, the old adage that two wrongs do not make a right is an adage because it’s true. You say you are seeking understanding; you’re never going to get it by lumping “most obese people” into the “lazy and glutinous” category and making generalizations about people you don’t even know and can’t prove. All you’ve accomplished, just like those who prejudged you, is to put other people on the defensive.
Second of all, doctors are not infallible. Many, many doctors have the same prejudices against fat people that you have exhibited in your comments. From a personal perspective I can tell you that I’ve had to battle with many doctors who have assumed that my health problems come from being obese. Ranging from a cardiologist who assumed within the first minute after meeting me that my heart palpitations came from being overweight (they actually came from a relapse of my thyroid disease) to a general physician actually telling me to my face that the reason I was coughing up bloody scabs was that I was overweight, not that I had acute tonsillitis, and if I just lost 50 pounds it would go away. I had to pitch a bloody screaming fit and start dialing the number of a lawyer I’ve used in the past (for something else) in order to get a script for frickin’ antibiotics.
http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2009/10/glutton_intolerance.html
http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2009/08/25/america-s-war-on-the-overweight.html
I can tell that the “minority of fat people have contributing health issues” was hard-won from you. The tone is just grudging. Again you don’t know these people, you’ve never met them, yet you claim that the majority of them are lazy and overeat.
Finally, you’ve missed the point of the article entirely. The whole point about having clothing models who look more like the customers who buy the clothing is not about encouraging women to be fat, or giving them an excuse to be fat (the comment of which is highly offensive, btw). It’s the same point as having clothing that fits all sizes of women available and affordable. The point is dignity. It’s not about health, or encouraging healthy habits or unhealthy habits. To quote Kate Harding, “Human beings deserve to be treated with dignity and respect. Fat people are human beings. Even fat people who are unhealthy still deserve dignity and respect. Still human beings. See how that works?”
http://kateharding.net/faq/but-dont-you-realize-fat-is-unhealthy/
To put it another way, wouldn’t you find it offensive if someone said that para and quadraplegics don’t need fancy clothes, or clothing other than pajamas, because all they do is sit around in a chair all day? I know I would. And you know, not all para and quadraplegics ended up that way through no fault of their own. I don’t know the exact figures, but I do know that some of them ended up that way because of risky behavior. Skydiving, horseriding (*cough* Christopher Reeve), volunteering for the armed forces, becoming a boxer or a wrestler, etc, etc. Hell people take a risk every day riding in a vehicle. Would you expect to not get slapped in the face by the family members/loved ones of a para or quadraplegic if you told them that if they hadn’t acted stupid, they wouldn’t be where they were now? Well, good luck with that.
Yeah.
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I think the important thing that some people are overlooking is that for most women (under 5’10″) being a size 14 simply means being overweight. You can say whatever you want about body image and acceptance but, the fact is that the waistband of the developed world continues to grow and continues to be linked to numerous diseases and health issues. Perhaps current standards for models are too thin but, to say that they should be more representative of the average woman is a terrible idea because the average woman is in fact overweight and it is not an image that should we should idealize. It is about being healthy and happy but to be clear being overweight is NOT healthy. Also, as someone who is not overweight nor anorexic who works hard to eat healthy and maintain my health and fitness I would prefer to see active strong healthy models instead of plus size ones.
In fact I think the quote from this article says it all, “Twenty years ago the average fashion model weighed 8% less than the average woman. Today she weighs 23% less.”
The average fashion model can only weigh so little. So the only difference today is that we are significantly larger as a population. You can make every excuse in the book and try and bring feelings into it and compare it to people with disabilities ( not sure that is a legit argument and is somewhat offensive by the way) BUT the truth still remains that as a whole we are larger and we continue to grow and at some point people are going to have to wake up and take responsibility for themselves and how they got to be so heavy. Do not blame the fast food companies, do not blame television and computers or busy schedules because other people encounter these things on a daily basis. Its about choices and MOST IMPORTANTLY its about setting the best possible example of health and fitness for the generation behind us.
With obesity rates on the exponential rise to the point of being considered a “national epidemic”, that 8% change to 23% statistic is simple math. There is no arguing that the air brushed “ideal” seen all over the media is simply unobtainable and arguably as unhealthy as obesity, however as the weight of the average woman increases (person for that matter), isn’t it obvious that the weight difference between model’s and the average would also increase? The media is doing no one a favor by polluting our thoughts with unrealistic role models but by simply saying obesity should be accepted and embraced isn’t helping the issue either. Anorexia and Obesity need to be approached extremely cautiously because the epidemiology of both conditions are typically as psychological as they are life style choices, but perhaps enabling acceptance could be equally detrimental to the solution…
@ Mary
You will not change my point of view, and I honestly believe that you do not understand my points, so I will make this my last response. You seem to fall into that minority I mentioned, so the fact that you are so vehemently defending the people who claim health issues cause their weight gain when that is not the case for them astounds me. As I said, it is those people who I’m speaking about, which is a different story altogether.
I do not expect understanding about being underweight as I know full well that it’s not through fault of my own, nor do I expect retailers to cater to my size, therefore I also do not expect them to cater to the opposite extreme. I couldn’t care less what people think of my size because I know my own situation. I’ve been called anorexic, crazy, weird, and many more things than I can even recall, and my skin is thick enough to take it. My reason for mentioning my own weight and struggle finding clothes was to give the opposite point of view. It is very difficult to find stylish clothing in the Kid’s department or to find sizes for adults that are small enough (partially due to sizes actually measuring bigger than they used to) but I don’t write or support articles that tell me I shouldn’t shop there because I’m not considered “normal” or “shapely” enough for them to size for me. I don’t complain about it. I just keep looking elsewhere for something that is right for me. I understand that it is much more feasible to use one set of proportions for clothing and simply size them up and down. Again, if you have large feet, you may need specialty shoes. Do I believe that it would be great for more sizes to be available on both ends of the spectrum? Oh yes, I do, but I am a practical person and understand that it’s not very… practical.
My “minority of obese people having health issues” statements were not grudging at all. I understand that this is a problem for some and I do sympathize with the frustration it must bring. However, the overweight people without those contributing factors will rarely admit that they are overweight of their own doing. Instead they tend to blame it on health issues which is often (except in that minority) blatantly untrue. That is not only offensive as it’s a lie, but also because it often comes from the mouths of those who bash thin women simply for being thin. It is THOSE people who really tick me off, not because they’re obese but because of the massive double standard and the expectation that they can say what they like because society in general does not support obesity.
It’s true that doctors are not infallible. I have also had my run-a-rounds with them regarding my own health. However, I do think that the huge rise in high blood pressure, diabetes, heart disease and joint problems in ever younger people points to the general idea that being overweight is simply unhealthy. It is unfortunate that your doctor was such a nuisance, but I do not think that his actions speak for the medical community as a whole. My mother’s doctor, for example, does not tell her to lose weight. He just feeds her more and more prescriptions for the issues she has as a result of it. Neither extreme is good, is it?
Your comments regarding the point of the article and dignity are overreaching. Is it more dignified to have to wear children’s clothing because you’re small than to have to shop at a Plus Size store because you’re big? I don’t see it as a point of dignity. It’s the assumption that one is due to “just small sizes” and the other is due to “you’re too fat and so we don’t like you enough to make clothing for you”. Perception is key.
As for comparing paraplegics and obese people, I will say this: I don’t view someone who was stupid enough to get on a motorcycle knowing the huge risks and ends up crippled any differently than someone who ends up very unhealthy from bad habits (whether it’s drug/alcohol addiction, obesity, or anything else). If a person is paralyzed due to circumstances not of their control, that is the same to me as an obese person who has contributing health issues. If the family of someone who crippled themselves riding a motorcycle, or of someone whose liver is failing due to year of alcoholism (my mother is a recovering alcoholic, by the way), wants to slap me for saying it’s their own fault, then so be it. It IS their own fault. I feel no sympathy for the results of such poor choices any more than I would expect it for myself.
If you believe that the family of someone who is crippled (due to injuries in the military) would want to slap me for saying their loved one deserves nothing but pajamas because “they brought it upon themselves”, you’re probably right, but I would not say that, as I don’t think it. A major difference between you and I is that I would never even think of them as bringing on themselves since they were there FIGHTING FOR OUR COUNTRY. That is not an act of stupidity and useless risk; it is usually an unselfish act, even if they enlisted for school financing or whatever the case may be. It’s vastly different from someone killing themselves with food or riding a motorcycle, or taking drugs, or ending up a vegetable due to anorexia, so I’m quite certain that it would not be me they wanted so badly to injure, but you for making that comparison to begin with in an attempt to defend bad habits. Shame on you!
As an aside, most people who are crippled due to motorcycle accidents WILL take responsibility for their actions and tell you that yes, it was their own fault for taking an unnecessary risk for the pleasure of it. Something most overweight people will NOT do.
I am a practical person with practical views, and I don’t believe in coddling. I believe coddling makes weak people who are unable to deal with the realities of life in general. Our society shows a growing trend of coddling, even down to giving all the team members trophies so no one really wins, thereby stomping out a healthy spirit of competition and striving to improve. I believe articles such as this one do coddle the feelings of “the majority” by making people unlike them seem like they are somehow unsuitable. Making thin people seem anorexic in order to spare the feelings of the “majority” of overweight people is just as wrong as making overweight people seem terrible in order to make thin people feel superior. Fashion magazines do the latter, and this article does the former, so to use your expression, do those two wrongs then make a right? If we keep telling people that it’s O.K. to get more and more obese, where does it end?
Would you think it’s fine for a publication to tell alcoholics that they should be better represented for drinking more than other alcoholics, and that sober people are somehow trying to hold them down, and give statistics proving why it’s acceptable to drink more? This article doesn’t come off as simply telling larger women to support brands who size for them. It comes off as telling them that it’s O.K. to want bigger sizes in department stores because the average woman is now bigger, even thought it’s well known that obesity is a rising epidemic.
You keep saying that I’m making judgements about people I don’t know and which I can not prove, but if that is true, then I think it’s also true that you do the same thing. You defend within an inch of your life the “majority” who make your doctors disbelieve your legitimate health problems, and you assume that my beliefs about “bringing bad things upon oneself” only apply to obesity. In fact, I have a general distaste for unwillingness to take personal responsibility in regard to any subject.
Would you say such nice things about the crackheads who die on the streets every day after taxing their families to the breaking point, and now have families who are wracked with grief and guilt, even though they “brought it on themselves”? I doubt that very much.
I don’t hate you or anyone else “because you’re fat”. I hate the defending of utter B.S. If you think that makes me an ignorant bigot, then by all means, think it. If you’re unable to see both sides (note that I’ve acknowledged that there are grey areas many times in my comments) , then I suppose that makes you bigot in your own right. It is not we “bigots” who make it more difficult for people like you who seem to have legitimate health issues. It is your peers, who do not have them, yet always go to the “I have gland problems” excuse, who make us tired of hearing B.S.
@ Disturbed:
Ah, a Republican/Conservative. Or a libertarian. I thought as much.
Here’s the big difference: I have compassion and respect for my fellow human being unless they truly don’t deserve it. I feel the same way about people like you as I feel about people who protest at military funerals, drown puppies and kittens, make a financial killing off of other people’s misery, start wars, and treat wait staff like crap; and murderers, pedophiles and rapists.
You’ve pretty much made my point for me. So, thanks.
I’ve said everything else I’m going to say, except for this. If you think like you say you think about fat people, and are determined, as kate harding also said, to “hate people for their own good” (don’t try to say you’re not hating; I realize you’re in denial, but that is what you’re doing) here’s a giant clue-by-four: THIS SITE IS NOT FOR YOU. You are wasting your time here. We’ve heard what you’ve got to say from so many people and we blow you off every time like the bigots you are. So, yanno, you’re just wasting your time.
There are several fat-bashing groups full of self-hatred and bigotry that I know of on livejournal that I can refer you to if you like. Those groups will pat you on the back for your bigotry. So, yanno, that would be more worth your time.
@ Mary
I don’t even know how you think your arguments against disturbed are valid. Are you aware of how many fallacies you’ve spouted out in your last few comments? You truly sound like the absolute worst kind of person, and I hope for the love of humanity that you’re just trolling this website and are not really that blatantly ignorant.
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“Twenty years ago the average fashion model weighed 8% less than the average woman. Today, she weighs 23% less.”
So your average woman is much bigger then 20 years ago?
Not a surprise. America has become fat and lazy and the enablers try to use excuses and rationalizations for it. Put the fork down and take a walk.
This is a health issue, not some psuedo self-esteem “fattys unite” thing and this article excusing and flat out promoting gluttony and laziness is worse then what you rail against.
When you die early, of an obesity related disease maybe then your eyes will open. Hopefully, you will realize it earlier so you can have a full life.
Fat is not natural, and it certainly is not sexy.
I agree that fat people should not be ridiculed, but they should be helped, even though it is(in 99.9% of the cases self-inflicted-if you are reading this and thinking glandular issue,you are lying to yourself. It is very rare). They may never be skinny, and that is okay. They don’t have to be disgustingly fat. Lose some fat,gain a little muscle and you will look good, but won’t be skinny. The goal should be to promote health not make excuses for people that cost this country billions every year.
PS: Where is all this concern towards fat males? They are treated worse then fat women, and are the butt of jokes in all forms of media. Somehow they don’t fit in your little PC exercise of passing the blame.
@mary
“Fat people are human beings. Even fat people who are unhealthy still deserve dignity and respect. Still human beings. See how that works?” ”
Do you say the same about drug addicts and alcoholics?
Stop making excuses for yourself, put the fork down and take a walk around the block.
You will thank me for it.
@ Scarlett:
Definition of an internet troll:
Internet poster who takes oppositional views to any advocacy site, regardless of the actual strength of his chosen position, for the pure purpose of stirring up debates, generating animosity, and triggering hatred.
Now, given that definition, and considering that both you and disturbed (yes I went back to re-read your comment) came here to the website of a fat-positive magazine – where, yanno, fat people tend to be the predominate visitors – to generally bash fat people and fat women in particular, I will leave it up to the other readers to decide who is and who isn’t a troll.
In other words – calling me a troll when you and disturbed were both already trollling? Yeah. Fail.
If you except fashion designers to create clothes that make a fat(not slightly over weight but still healthy- i am talking fat) woman look attractive and actually show something resembling a woman’s figure keep dreaming.
You know the old adage:you can’t polish a turd? Well,fat women are certainly not turds, but that massive fat roll from the top of their abdomen that goes down past their knees can not be made to look good, neither can that upper arm that is larger then most men’s waists.
Fat women are unattractive. End of story.
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Challenging the physical stereotypes in fashion modelling is one thing to be applauded.
However, what about challening the concept of female beauty in terms of ethnicity? The average woman may be a size 14/16 (US/UK) but this takes into account all ethnicities and ages, not just the young. The average woman I suspect, is also not a blonde, blue eyed Caucasian amazon either!
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Mary, keep on with the good fight. I agree with everything that you said about “disturbed” . To me the bottom line in this article is not about health. And we don’t know who is behind these computers, what their lifestyle is like or what issues they have and have not right to judge them. This is a CLOTHING site not a health or fitness site.
Everyone deserves to have clothes in their size. Overweight and obese, plus-size, whatever–the women responding to this article have almost all said they would like to see more fashionable clothes in their sizes and more models that reflect it, and not size 10 models representing PLUS sizes. Whether or not fashion designers or photographers will pay attention to that is another question. They have their own preferences, but if people walk with their dollars and do not patronize stores that make cheap ugly clothes for plus sized women, then those designers will have to be content with the money they make from smaller sizes or they will change.
Since the 1960s the fashion has been to photograph and idolize thinner women. How has that helped the obesity epidemic? It hasn’t. Some people who have responded seem to think that by only showing thin women and not making clothes for plus-sized women, that is going to make women lose weight. What kind of magical thinking is that? If that were the case then we would not have an obesity epidemic at all, since fat women are marginalized and not considered beautiful by the media since the 1960s. If anything it has done nothing but create more women who are insecure about their bodies and more eating disorders (be they anorexia, bulimia or overeating) IF we see images in the media as cause and effect to health issues.
Personally, I don’t think putting bigger models out there is going to make the obesity epidemic worse. If anything it is going to make a lot more women feel better about themselves, have all women dressed nicer (instead of in leggings, sweat pants and baggy shirts) and perhaps have less girls and teenagers dieting and getting eating disorders.
The reasons for the obesity epidemic are complex and affect not only the U.S. but also England and Australia. I don’t know about Australia, but the U.S. and England switched to a carb heavy diet in the 1970s and 80s. Before there was the food pyramid, heavy laden with carbohydrates, there were the four food groups. That was what I learned in school. Eat a dairy, meat, vegetable and a starch in equal proportions. In addition, many women left the home and started working–this leaves children to fend for themselves when it comes to meals, or packaged, processed food and take out–basically junk food. This was a drastic change from the days when mom (mostly) cooked up meals from scratch and everyone sat down at the dinner table together. Also there have been changes in the food served as lunches in schools (now it is junk food) and the proliferation of fast food restaurants. Not to mention that our food is not labeled in terms of whether it is natural or GMO. The quantity of pesticides, hormones, etc. are in many foods unless you buy organic. If a cow or chicken is fed growth hormone to make it fat, does that seep into our milk and meat? What kind of effect would that have on humans? These are all issues that are impacting the health, and may be reasons why we have an obesity epidemic. Personal responsibility is of course important. However, I find it hard to believe that in just one generation, over 50% of Americans, Brits and Australians have become fat, lazy slobs who stuff their faces with junk food on the couch as some people have more or less implied on this site. This is not a simple problem. And for those that cry for skinny models because it is not helping the obesity epidemic to show women as they really are, I hope that you all are as vocal about the FDA, the quality of our food supply and what is being fed to our children in public school lunches, as you are about what kinds of clothes and models should be marketed to women.
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Thank you Celeste.
There’s also all sorts of research going on about chemicals in our environment, air, food and water and how it all affects the human body. Some of those changes take generations because it affects the genes during pregnancy, and it’s not just weight – infertility is on the rise, and various birth defects are on the rise (although a portion of those is coming from more women having babies at an older age). A lot of chemicals they are now finding out mimic hormones in the human body and wreak all sorts of havoc with the body’s systems. As a thyroid patient for the past 23 years(Graves’ Disease, just had a total thyroidectomy this past summer) I’ve read up a lot on the endocrine system and it’s amazing to know (the doctors themselves admit it) that science still doesn’t fully understand how all the hormones act on the body (and interact with each other). And I’ve read a number of articles where scientists stated that they have only brushed the surface of understanding what all the pollutants in our environment are doing to the human body.
Here’s a great site about the research from UC Irvine: http://www.uci.edu/features/2009/10/feature_obesogens_091019.php
I still love that Kate Harding line – and she was quoting someone else who she couldn’t remember. But the line in particular (which is on the page I linked to above) is “You cannot hate people for their own good.” It still baffles me that people still think they can take a person who they think (but don’t know for certain) is suffering from an eating disorder – most of which are grounded in psychological and emotional problems – and shame them, take away their dignity, and belittle them and expect that to solve the problem. Really?! I love how you put it – magical thinking, indeed! If there wasn’t an eating disorder in the picture before, 10 will get you 20 that there is one after all the shaming, belittling and ridicule!
Again thank you for your lovely comment.
being obease is just as if not unheatier then anorexia. I’m a petitie person in height and weight so going by some of yer comments I’m not aractive and thats just the way i am naturaly. people are differet shape and sizes and is noones buisness what anyone elses weight is.So just because your a size 12 or you think thatd a perfect size why would you try and force that on other people. You dthink its wrong that the fashion indusrty uses slim models and “forces” that image of beauty, but your doing the same thing you want to change it to plau size model because it fits your image of beauty. People are atracted to different body types aswell so noone can say your not atractive because your thin.None is focing anyone to look at runway shows or modes to participate.This is an age old deabte and its the 21st centuary ad time to get over it