Plus Size Bodies, What Is Wrong With Them Anyway?
In the January 2012 issue of PLUS Model Magazine, plus-size model Katya Zharkova is featured in an explosive editorial where thought provoking statistics and statements are revealed.
*Check out all the images here*
- Twenty years ago the average fashion model weighed 8% less than the average woman. Today, she weighs 23% less.
- Ten years ago plus-size models averaged between size 12 and 18. Today the need for size diversity within the plus-size modeling industry continues to be questioned. The majority of plus-size models on agency boards are between a size 6 and 14, while the customers continue to express their dissatisfaction.
- Most runway models meet the Body Mass Index physical criteria for Anorexia.
- 50% of women wear a size 14 or larger, but most standard clothing outlets cater to sizes 14 or smaller.
If we continue to ignore and rely on others to decide what we want to see, change will never happen. We have to be vocal and proactive, patient and realistic.
Tips on how we can help create change:
- Support the companies who market to you.
- Use social networking sites and email to let brands and designers know how you feel about clothing, options and the use of straight sized models (thin models) to market to you.
- Your dollars count! If you stop buying at “Store A” and let them know you will not be purchasing clothing until they market to you, this will raise concern.
- Use every avenue and opportunity you have available to you for your voice to be heard.
- Indie designers need our support.
The answer to the question is this, there is nothing wrong with our bodies. We are bombarded with weight-loss ads every single day, multiple times a day because it’s a multi-billion dollar industry that preys on the fear of being fat. Not everyone is meant to be skinny, our bodies are beautiful and we are not talking about health here because not every skinny person is healthy.
Don’t forget to check out the entire feature by clicking HERE!
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Ok, first of all, this article is about giving people who never have self esteem a place to start, so all you people who are on here preaching the same old crap like you know where we’re coming from, can go start your own magazine for underprivelaged skinny people somewhere else, this one’s not for you!
That being said, I have been overweight all my life. When people sit there and tell you that you’ll never amount to anything because you don’t fit the normal profile, that tends to make you want to give up, since you can’t do much about your body type anyway, and just want to eat more, which is where I found myself at one point in life. I am still what most would consider overweight, but I have lower blood sugar, colesteral, and blood pressure than anyone I know. My husband, who weights 120 pounds less than me, and is considered “normal”, is on high blood pressure meds AND colesterol meds! So to all you people preaching on here about how celebrating plus sized people means supporting some 5000 pound woman who sits on her couch and screams at her kids to bring her another hamburger – can shut up!
I am loved for who I am , and EVERYONE deserves that. Stop telling us that we don’t matter! We ARE the new norm. You don’t like it, tough, build a boat, and gather a bunch of skinny people together and start yourselves a coloney in outer mongolia where you never have to see or deal with us again. As for me – Im not going anywhere anytime soon, so put up and shut up!
Disturbed,
I am a size 14…. I’m 4’11…. And I totally agree with you. I have battled with weightless all of my adult life (I’m 45). I do have mild health problems (hypothyroid ) but I also know that this is only part of my problem. The other part of my problem is ME!! Although I work out pretty regularly, I don’t always eat the way I KNOW I should! Having health issues is not always an excuse for being overweight. It just means you have to be more contentious about eating and exercise. Fad diets don’t work…. Quick fixes don’t last…. Hard work, determination and commitment do. That said, I really do believe the supermodels of today do a disservice to the women of the world.. People need to realize that MOST of these models go to extreme lengths to maintain their model figures and that is not realistic for most people. Bottom line… Extremely thin or extremely overweight is not healthy. People need to get real with themselves….. Jmo…..
maybe if you stopped segregating them into “plus size” and just leave them as models, peoples mindsets would change. but as long as you segregate them as being something other than the norm, ur gonna be having the same arguments in 10 years when most designers STILL wont want their very slim fitting clothes to be on a fat girl. that and it will cost them even more in materials to produce much bigger clothing making them more expensive lol but calling her plus size doesn’t change the fact that she’s fat, sorry. you can have a great attitude and be healthy as a large person but still be promoting unhealthy eating habits to the dumbed down masses who think that its encouragement and reson for them to be unhealthy.
I agree completely with Frances. If you look at my BMI, I am underweight. But I eat when I want and for the most part what I want. I don’t starve myself and never have. I exercise, but not obsessively. I live my life in a way that makes me feel good and have energy. Just because I weigh a certain amount does not make me anorexic. If being a size 8, but still being healthy is ok, then I think it should be ok to be a size 0 or 2 while being healthy as well. I am a model and I resent when people lump us all into one category of “anorexics” just because we are thin. Yes, there are some that are too thin. That doesn’t mean we all are, or that we should get rid of thin models.
I would also like to say that while my comment disagrees with aspects of this article it doesn’t contradict the entire message of it. I think that everyone should have fashion available to them if they want. And I don’t think it’s very fair on designers parts to not have plus size models showcase their clothes to those customers who are also plus size.
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Cornfed,
From a curvaceous (not obese) woman…… I thank you for seeing the beauty in a curve!! LOL….. I only find one troubling comment in your post…. The fact that you are ashamed to admit to your male counterparts that you appreciate the curvy form.. As my grandfather used to say, even a dog wants a little meat on his bones… LOL
@Mary: I’m fat and I totally understand Disturb’s points. She is trying to show another point of view, as a comparison. She isn’t ‘hating’ fat people or being a bigot. I totally don’t understand why you think she is. I think you should re-read her posts with an open mind. You totally misunderstood her.
@Disturbed: Thank you for your patience. I’m 50 pounds overweight due mostly to stress, and I take responsibility for it. I’m not fat enough for Plus sizes but too fat for regular sizes. It’s all in the belly (which stress cortisol tends to do) which makes it even more difficult to find clothes that fit. If something is big enough to fit my boobs and belly, it’s way too big for my butt. But I can’t blame it all on stress. I take responsibility for it. I would never dream of expecting clothing manufacturers to make special clothes for me! No, my huge belly is an obvious sign that something is waaaaaay out of whack! It is an illness! I am sick! I cannot deny that and why would I want to? Every time I go shopping and feel disgusted about that big belly, I feel a stronger resolve to effin’ DO something about it! And THAT is loving and respecting myself! To actually DO something to FIX the problem! Staying sick isn’t loving myself. I’ve got to relax more, take better care of myself, and exercise. I’ve got to do something like yoga, to help manage the stress. Most of all, I need to quit letting stuff get to me which stresses me out. I am thankful for my massive belly, because it is teaching me what I need to know about myself. Disturbed, you are in the right here. Peace to you!
@Facepalm: I have not seen any scientific evidence given by anyone commenting on this blog aside from myself. No links, aside from the ones that I, Dr. Deah Schwartz, Maria, Marnie, Skyfire, Speider Schneider, Jeanne Garbarino and mikey posted. Mikey’s link was the only one posted not in support of the main points of the article. And his link was to an article based on a Gallup poll whose points were based on government figures – or so the linked article says. However, I chased down all the links in that article – and all the sub-links and sub-links – and could find no actual proof of those points actually being based on government figures. So at this point we cannot consider it a credible source. (It’s based on surveys, not scientific research or facts.) I disagree that disturbed’s arguments are well-formed or reasonable, but it could be argued that my perception of her arguments is based on my personal opinion – but if that is so, then so are yours.
As to comparing her to a puppy-killing psycho, if you’ll actually read my comment again, I said that “I have compassion and respect for my fellow human being unless they truly don’t deserve it. I feel the same way about people like you as I feel about people who protest at military funerals, drown puppies and kittens, make a financial killing off of other people’s misery, start wars, and treat wait staff like crap; and murderers, pedophiles and rapists.” I was not saying that she was the same as a puppy-killer – just that I felt the same way towards people like her as I do towards puppy-killers. I base my feeling towards people based on their behavior and actions towards other people – not based on their appearance. I have just as much compassion for people caught up in the throes of drug or alcohol addiction, or people with disabilities (through their own fault or not) as the compassion for my fellow fat human beings that I’ve shown here. And to be clear, I don’t dislike disturbed because she’s skinny – I dislike her because she has shown such hatred and judgement towards her fellow human beings based on one aspect of their lives – their appearance.
As for the continued assertion that overweight/obese = unhealthy, I will continue to point people who spout that to Kate Harding’s piece, because she says it so well: http://kateharding.net/faq/but-dont-you-realize-fat-is-unhealthy/ Please note that the page is chock full of links to articles that actually link to….scientific studies! Gee. Imagine that.
As for working in a cinema, guess what, I was a manager of a cinema for several years, here in the US. And yes I saw all sorts of kids getting treats at the concession stand. Big kids, little kids. Fat kids, skinny kids. Imagine my shock and surprise when I saw that the skinny kids were getting the same stuff the fat kids were, and in similar quantities. Now since I didn’t follow those kids around 24/7 (and unless you’ve made special arrangements with all of their parents and have either somehow managed to make duplicates of yourself or have hired a whole slew of researchers to do it for you) and neither have you, we can only make inferences based on the behavior we see/saw. We don’t know what those kids eat at home or other places – both groups, the skinny and the fat. We don’t know if what they get at the cinema is a special treat or not. We don’t know for certain that diet is what is making the fat kids fat, or the skinny kids skinny. In order to say that it’s not a special treat, that in the case of the fat kids it’s their diet that made them fat, we have to make assumptions – which is the very thing I was chiding disturbed for doing.
As an aside, I did have a personal experience with this topic growing up. My family and a family of cousins lived on the same multi-family property. My siblings and I were chubby – my cousins were all skinny as rails. My siblings and I spent the majority of our non-school,non-sleep time at their house so I got a first-hand glimpse at what they ate. Guess what the majority of what they ate was? Pizza almost every night. Lots and lots of chips. Sugary snacks like hostess cakes and oreos. Lots and lots of cookies. Lots of greasy, high-fat foods. Guess what we ate? My mom was a health nut : made from scratch whole-wheat pancakes with home-ground peanut butter on top instead of syrup; whole-wheat pasta from the health-food store with made-from scratch tomato sauce; lots and lots of steamed veggies (I can’t even tell you how many bushels of green beans I’ve snapped, and to this day I simple adore broccoli and spinach); most meals consisted of either low-fat baked fish or poultry as the main component; made-from scratch pie with whole-wheat crust, honey and fresh-picked blueberries (my family knew a family who had a farm and allowed us to go pick what we wanted) as an occasional treat; and low-fat, low-sugar carob-chip cookies (sweetened with fruit juice) also as an occasional treat. My siblings and I were always chubby and currently one qualifies as overweight, and me and the other qualify as obese according to the current BMI scale. My cousins were, as I said, all skinny as rails and continue to be.
It actually is rational to differentiate between the health issue and the fashion issue. You actually reinforce my point; you say that “People don’t just judge fat people because they LOOK fat, they judge them because, in a lot of cases, they’re being overly unhealthy.” Notice the important word there – JUDGE. Again people are making judgements of other people based just on what they see. You don’t know these people from Adam but because of one component of their lives that is so visible, you’ve already judged them as unhealthy. Again, I refer you back to the Kate Harding post I’ve linked above. And AGAIN, making sure that people of all sizes has well-fitting clothing to wear is NOT endorsing unhealthy behavior, or behavior of any kind. You’re equating dignity – being able to cover one self according to the mores and dictates of society without being subject to embarrassment – with a reward. As if overweight people were so AWFULLY BAD and MORALLY REPREHENSIBLE that they don’t “deserve” dignity. Well, just shit on that.
As for being not voluptuous or sexually attractive – well. I’d probably shock you by telling you how many men I’ve been with or how much sex I’ve had in the 34 years I’ve been on this planet (started at 19). Or you’d start calling me a slut, but hell, I’ve been called worse. But hey look, there’s another scientific study about just that: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-scientific-fundamentalist/200811/the-power-female-choice-fat-chicks-get-laid-more
@Lynn, well said! Mary is the one who was being hateful, not Disturbed.
And btw, did I mention I’m a fat woman? I’m fat and I was able to understand Disturbed’s points. @Mary, you really twisted her words big time, and you said some really nasty things to her.
Couldnt it be as simple as there are many sides to beauty and most people would like it if the media showed more than one? And perhaps we should all be striving to find what is naturally healthy for our bodies instead blindly struggling to meet the standard we are told we should?
“Do you size 0-4 women really believe you are attractive with the artificial body parts?”
What kind of reasoning is that?
You are either natural and large or artificial and small?
That is just plain idiocy.
Okay… Well, I understand what everyone is saying here. I understand that the US is continuously getting fatter and blah blah blah. But the comment about the model’s only being 8% smaller back in the day and 23% today… That gap is getting bigger in BOTH directions. If you look at the models of back in the day, they were full figured women, with beautifully feminine bodies… but today the ideal is to have a masculine straight figured toned form. There’s nothing wrong with having either form, and both forms should be celebrated… Unfortunately, people buy magazines with super skinny females on the cover more often then they buy magazines with overweight women on the cover. If your BMI is more than 29.9… you need to lose weight, and if it’s lower than 18.5, you need to gain weight. Simple as that. I don’t agree that a size 6 should be considered “Plus size,” but I also know that if you wear a size 18 and you’re 5’10″ you’re obese… Simple as that. And since the average height for women in the US is somewhere around 5’4″/5″, it’s not reasonable to have a size 18 model, and consider that “healthy.”
That’s all. <3
BTW… I'm overweight, and not proud of it… I will say, however, that I couldn't ever fit in a size 6, even if I lost weight. My bone structure would not allow it.
@Disturbed. I totally agree with this girl. Amen, sister!
I’m 5’4″ / 100 lbs. I’ve NEVER been heavier than this. I’ve been the same weight/size since high school. Do you know how annoying it is to hear from people how skinny I am all the time? If I asked people how they “stay so fat,” I don’t think too many people would like me. It’s considered rude to tell people that they are fat, but not when you gawk at someone who probably has a decent BMI – and then also adding extra insult by hinting at the fact that you think they MUST have a disorder. How is that fair?
I find it insulting that people think that I MUST have an eating disorder, or must be starving myself to maintain this weight. Really, all I do is eat VERY healthy. I don’t eat fast food, I rarely eat out, I cook my own food, I have a balanced meal with a lot of veggies, I eat normal portions, I rarely eat junk food or sweats, and I’m physically active. I don’t consider that a diet, I consider that healthy.
Everyone knows that America is overweight. It’s not a shocker. Most european countries are not nearly as heavy as our country, but yet we’re supposed to praise people’s bad eating habits and lack of physical activity? The reason models used to be only 8% smaller than the average person 20 years ago was because our country wasn’t as overweight then! Sorry, I don’t think our genetics have changed, but our habits certainty have, and people should stop blaming magazines and clothing stores for making them feel fat – because quite frankly, they ARE fat, and they only have themselves to blame. If you don’t agree, please ask your doctor if they think you’re at a healthy weight.
Stop trying to put the blame on everyone else. I know, it’s never YOUR problem, it’s always SOMEONE ELSE’S problem, right? Everyone is responsible for themselves….so stop hating on us skinny girls and take that cheeto out of your gaping mouth. (Sorry I had to say it.)
Being not skinny have being demonized for years as an unhealthy state. We first need to separate both concepts. We as women need to start living a happy and fulfilling life no matter how curvy we are. Being healthy is an issue for all, exercising and eating a balanced and varied diet is not only for the stigmatized full figure. Yes, I’m a full figure woman and also a nutrition student. A big hug to all the readers!
This woman is just plain fat. She would probably be beautiful with a slimmer body, but people rationalizing obesity now adays by saying it is normal. America has gotten fatter on average, that is why the difference percentage is larger. IT IS UNHEALTHY TO BE EVEN SLIGHTLY OVERWEIGHT. Being underweight is also unhealthy, but being athletic looking is never a bad thing.
I wish that the women expressing such venom over the idea that being overweight is unhealthy would stop buying the misinformation they are being fed. It is not empowering to believe that there is only one way to be nor to state categorically that there is a scientifically sound causality between weight and health. There is a small corrolation NOT causation. Please visit the latest research that has been published. Toronto and Mayo both have obesity clinics that study this and both point out that weight and general measures of health are in fact not causal. You CAN be overweight and be healthy – primarily because weight is not uniform nor is the body as simplistic as machine as we would like to believe it to be. The reason the models are thin is no more causal for them being unhealthy. There IS a corrolation between being underweight and other health risks – funnily enough many of them are the same as being over weight. At issue is the difficulty we are having as a society in accepting diversity without comment or judgement. This article is simply asking for representative marketing and manufacturing. It has instead become a forum for discussion of weight loss, health and self worth. These are not connected to marketing and manufacturing except insofar as it is a tool to undermine huge and important segments of the population. This issue is about equitable representation – stop the knee-jerk judgements and focus on accepting equality as a fundamental right.
I am Plutogirl, a proud, curvy Renaissance woman and American actress. I was called “borderline obese” on a website run by anti-feminist guys, yet I have normal blood pressure and cholesterol and am at most 20 pounds overweight. My heritage is also Russian, and many Russian women have evolved to be naturally curvy and have slow metabolism to survive the harsh winters in that part of the world. Women who wear sizes 12 and 14 are not obese. There is a huge difference between obese and the high end of normal. Being too thin is just as unhealthy as being too fat. Whatever happened to a happy medium? Normal constitutes a wide range of shapes and sizes. We most certainly do have a twisted sense of what is healthy if promoting a normal size equates to promoting obesity. To emphasize just how subjective our notions of beauty are, I recommend everyone take a look at Renaissance paintings to see a very different ideal. The women, including the goddess of love, Venus, are voluptuous and curvy.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2085226/PLUS-Model-Magazines-Katya-Zharkova-cover-highlights-body-image-fashion-industry.html#ixzz1jJ4ILLIm
It is obvious that the intolerance and judgmental attitudes that America was founded with still run strong with all of your comments. Fat people who struggles with being fat and saying no to that cheesecake, won’t be encouraged by name-calling and anger. Just like anorexics are helped by name-calling and anger. If you really want to change people start with loving yourself and loving yourself enough to love the people in your family/ on your job/ and in your circles. Love births love…hate births hate.
I mean’t –”Just like anorexics AREN”T helped by name-calling and anger.”
Blokes have great difficulty in finding larger sized clothes too. “Big Man’ shops are few & far between. With better health, nutrition, etc etc people are bigger. Clothing shops and airline seat designers have yet to figure that out.
This model looks absolutely beautiful and I wish I looked as good
How about seeing the beauty in a woman and not the size ?
Now there’s a thought….
@ Mike–If you are talking about the girl bent over and the girl standing, looking over her shoulder….Um, they are the same person…. Katya Zharkova.
What beautiful (Plus Size) models. For me these are real women – not the thin, emaciated women who currently appear on fashion catwalks and in magazines – not appealing at all.
I think that a lot of people are missing the point. I think that we can all agree that beauty can come in all shapes and sizes and a size 6 is certainly not “plus”. That being said, it is important to love ourselves and respect ourselves enough to not cram Big Mac’s down our throats and flaunt fat as beautiful as long as we are confident enough. Confidence, respect and love for ourselves isn’t just about accepting “flaws” but striving to be the best and healthiest version of ourselves.
And I honestly still cannot understand how there can be any non-troll motivation for people to come to a website that markets predominately to fat people and proceed to hate on fat people, even if it’s camouflaged as “concern.” What is that? Do you also go around to websites that predominately market to smokers and hate on them for smoking? Go to websites that market predominately to gamers and hate on them for being geeks? Really? Wow.
Certainly a thought provoking editorial. As a plus size woman, I most certainly do want to be marketed to through the use of plus sized models who share my size. How would I know what a designer’s clothing would look like on me, if it is shown to me on a skinny woman? Often times plus sized clothing is just a larger version of what is popular on thinner people, with very little attention paid to whether or not the trendy style is actually suitable or attractive on a plus size person.
If the majority of Americans are indeed over weight, it is only logical that their clothing be represented to them in an appropriate way. This means that plus size clothing should be CREATED SPECIFICALLY FOR and TAILORED TO plus size bodies. After which those clothes should be marketed to ME on a plus sized model so that I can see them in a way I can relate to. Those who purchase “regular” sized clothing do not have this challenge. I agree that no one tries to sell to skinny girls using a fat model.
Several of the other comments on this article are clearly missing the point by debating whether large is lovely. This is about MARKETING. It is about the VOICE of the consumer and encouraging the consumer to communicate with those who provide the goods they consume.
MY money is EQUALLY as spendable as a skinny person’s money and I have every right to ask manufacturers to market to me in a way that I find helpful and/or aesthetically pleasing. This article doesn’t ask you whether or not you believe fat people eat too much, to be perfectly blunt. It is encouraging you to think about the statistics presented and contemplate whether or not you would want to be marketed to in this manner.
Don’t you want what you purchase to be presented to YOU as a person, not a group of people that doesn’t necessarily represent you? I believe skinny models should sell skinny clothes to skinny people. I want to see a curvy lady in the clothes you try to sell to me.
The article sums it up pretty well by saying: “If we continue to ignore and rely on others to decide what we want to see, change will never happen. We have to be vocal and proactive, patient and realistic.” This line of thinking extends beyond clothing into most other aspects of life.
Do you want television censors to decide if something is too raunchy for you to watch and prevent you from ever seeing it, robbing you of the opportunity to decide for yourself? I don’t. I am perfectly capable of deciding for myself.
Do you want the government to tell you which car to drive? Which stores to shop in? Which books to read? Or worse, to wake up and be told who is running the government without the opportunity to elect your choice of officials?
Letting other people tell me what I want in any capacity will never be acceptable. It is truly awesome that we live in this great country which allows us the opportunity to choose for ourselves rather than be dictated to. I would certainly encourage the fashion industry to utilize more truly plus sized models. There should be models of every size and shape. Those of us who are plus sized, or whatever you want to call us, are here and we have money to spend and we get to choose who we give it to. It would be nice if those we would like to give it to would listen to what we want to see.
First, I would like to say that many of you should be ashamed. One type of body is not superior to another. As women, we should be banding together against body policing. Not tearing each other down. The immaturity is astounding. This article is fantastic and you are disrespecting the author with your infantile behavior. In the fashion industry, we need to have more realistic models. End of story. There need to be fat models, skinny models, athletic models, handicapped models, trans models, average models, and everything in between. Our world is diverse. So is our fashion. Shouldn’t the models be?
Secondly, for those of you who think fat is disgusting? You’re entitled to your opinion, albeit shitty. I know that I am 5’10″ tall, weigh 230 lbs, and wear a size 18 and some people may not find that attractive, but you know what? I love myself. Every curve, every dimple, every stretch mark, EVERYTHING. And that’s ALL that matters.
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One guy’s point of view;
It is your body and it is your attitude about life.
OK, you yell at me and tell me big is beautiful. I do not care one way or the other. Are you healthy, active, never lazy, never whining or complaining? Or do you just sit there, never engage life and just complain about it?
Sloth and gluttony are still sins.
Fat can be beautiful, but you have to make it so.
Fat slob is always ugly.
After receiving over fifty notifications in my email regarding this topic, I chose to see what people had to say. Some of what I read was good, as it seems like some people actually had the reading comprehension to see past their own insecurities and get why I was so irritated by the “thin hate”. A few comments were so utterly ridiculous that I couldn’t even feel offended by them and could only laugh. I think most of us know exactly which comments I’m referring to! *wink*
@ Islandgirl – I am so glad that you took what I was saying as it was intended. If you are able to do that, then certainly so many others should be able to. I hope you are able to attain whatever goal makes you happy and healthy and comfortable! Honesty is so refreshing in a society that lacks it. You are a shining example of someone who takes responsibility for herself while still loving herself, and I truly applaud you!
@ Mary – I didn’t know “yanno” was a word! Is it Dutch? Oh wait, you were trying to be clever. Nice touch with the abusing of the English language.
Since my obvious attempts to be clear in my thoughts in a manner which did not involve swearing and name-calling were lost on you, I’ll be very frank. You can continue to post all the links you want while telling the world again how I’m no better than a Libertarian Republican, child-raping murderer of kittens who crashes military funerals (funny that you said that in particular since I pointed out your poor military injuries analogy). Although, I AM quite polite to wait staff, even the chubby ones.
Contrary to your narrow-minded mindset, I didn’t come here to troll anyone. I came here to see about this article which people were saying was great. I’m so very sorry that I DARED to click on an article that doesn’t pertain to us skinny bitches and find that I might actually be offended by some of the overweight women insulting me or the article implying that overly thin people are all anorexic! Far be it for me, an OBVIOUS fat hater, to express my displeasure for some of the double standards and ugliness I was reading since I’m not overweight and don’t belong at this website.
To be blunt, I don’t hate the way “fat” people look any more than I hate someone who has different colored hair or different styles of clothing. I never once said it was unattractive and I would never tell an overweight woman she is ugly because she is overweight. You must feel very ugly if you derived THAT from anything I typed. I’ve seen many plus size women who were beautiful. What I hate is the fact that far too many obese people (do I need to again remind you that I don’t think ALL do this?), in their addicted behavior (as Susan, I think it was, put it), deny and lie about their own responsibility in their weight issues while insulting ME for being thin. Just like an addict of any other sort would, and yet other addictions and mental disorders are so much more frowned upon, aren’t they? It isn’t the fat. It’s the attitude, and you have proven to be not only a hypocrite but also just as mean-spirited as those you are “chiding”. Cut the crap. You can talk about how you respect everyone because they’re human beings who deserve dignity all you like but it is very clear that you don’t see a thing wrong with overweight women slamming thin women whom they’ve never met… but thin women who dare to speak up for themselves are, in your twisted perception of reality, bigots. You can post all the links you like to support your arguments, and tell people they are wrong because they don’t post links for theirs, but the reality is that you can just Google “obesity and health problems” and get all the information you could possibly need for far more numerous sources so they probably don’t feel it necessary to give links backing up their arguments. If you are going to come down on “fat haters” like you seem to think I am, then also come down on the “thin haters” who spew their own brand of bigotry on websites like these simply because the sites are “for them”. I DON’T HATE FAT PEOPLE. Did you get it that time? Do I need to maybe send you a pair of glasses, or perhaps give you the definition of context? You are not promoting awareness or acceptance with what you have to say and are instead promoting double standards and special treatment. You are alienating the population of people who you seek to accept you. Like many people, I really dislike double standards and I really, really hate the bullshit mindset that the world is rapidly coming to embrace. You want to weaken the species? Just keep telling them they don’t have to try at anything that matters and see how lazy and stupid humans become, and guess what? I don’t just mean overweight people! It’s all encompassing. I know that must not fit with your “you just hate fat people” theory. .Just curious – does that make me Republican or does it make me Libertarian? Since you figured bringing Politics into it would help your argument, please, by all means, label me more to fit your desperate need to avoid admitting that there might have actually been some truth in what I said.
You are the prime example of exactly what prompted me to take the time to type anything on this website. You want acceptance, you want to be equal, but what you (in particular) really want is for no one to speak up for ACTUAL equality if it doesn’t suit you. You want to be spoken to softly but people like you don’t hear anyone unless they yell. I tried speaking softly to you and that didn’t work, did it? Regarding speaking softly, I’ve seen enough trolling over the years to know that I probably would have just called you a whale or asked how your computer chair can keep up with the strain (I’ve actually these exact things before) or some other stereotypical insult, laughed and never returned unless it was to fire off more one-liner insults which could have been thought up by a five year old. Funny, I didn’t do that, so I guess I should try much harder at that whole trolling thing!
By the way, if you’d like to give me those links to Self-hating Bigots’R'Us, please feel free to do so! I don’t feel the need to go celebrate my slimness with fellow thin people and rally against the obese who “shouldn’t be there” to make myself feel superior, but I suppose I could read the same kind of bullshit there as I’ve seen the thin-haters spew here. Bullshit still smells like bullshit, no matter how much perfume you dump on it.
You may now resume your laundry list of socially and morally bereft people you feel the same about as you do me, but at least this time it won’t be in the same cowardly manner you showed previously since you thought I would not be reading any more. At the very least, they did make me chuckle at your utter lack of any intelligent or meaningful response to my previous comment. You sure put me in my place! Obviously, my response is no longer about you understanding my thoughts, since you very obviously lack the desire to comprehend anything that doesn’t make you feel O.K. about yourself, so much as simply cleansing myself of the nonsense you just tried to hard to force into my brain. Good attempt, though. Next time you want someone to believe that you blow off people like them because what they say doesn’t matter, perhaps refraining from responding would work better than telling them.
@ Susan – I realize that eating disorders do not only apply to anorexics: eating disorders also include overeating or eating for emotional stress relief, etc. If you had actually understood me, you’d have known that I also stated that I have dealt with discrimination and judgment due to my anxiety and my resulting low weight, and that I don’t use it as an excuse to not do anything to help myself or to expect special treatment. I’ve seen many doctors, I’ve taken many medications and I’ve done this for twenty-five years (I’m now in my thirties). I’ve done what? Tried to help myself with my “mental disorder” which you correctly compared to struggles of the obese. Yes, they are both psychological, and neither improve without EFFORT on the part of the sufferer.
Talking sense to some people is a bit like beating your head against a wall. I’m glad that at least some (no matter what their sizes) understand and appreciate sense!
The image of the 2 women strikes me as an image of a beautiful mother holding (in a protective way) her young timid daughter. The fuller woman was designed to look confident just as the small woman was designed to look insecure. Who is more desirable is obvious in this light. What I would have LIKED to have seen is for both women to face the camera and look confident! Then we’d see that both women are beautiful which would would express that ALL women have the right to feel confident and beautiful! But this is not the point of the article. That being said, I do feel that the majority of 00 sized models of today are not allowed to be as fully beautiful as nature intended them to be. The industry they are working in is too restrictive. However, that is part of the appeal of the industry, isn’t it! Exclusivity! Specialism! It can just be so twisted and unhealthy when unchecked!
@ disturbed
Please. I am asking seriously. Please explain to me how the following:
“I think it’s impractical to expect those who don’t fall into that category to subscribe to the growing number of trite excuses for said obesity. True, a small percentage of people really DO have health issues that cause them to gain weight easily, or have a harder time losing it, or that prevent them from exercising in order to facilitate weight loss. Let’s get real, here, ladies. MOST overweight people do NOT have these issues. In fact, I wonder if the ones who do have them find it insulting when they hear the majority spout such non-sense as it sort of makes them look bad, doesn’t it?”
“the majority of plus size women simply do not want to do what is necessary to maintain a healthy (and what used to be the average, even without starvation) weight”
“to call an overweight person (who obviously does not have health issues to cause obesity fat) and find it to be a negative thing because it’s unhealthy (generally speaking, though some mildly overweight people can be fit as anyone else) and is stressful for the people who love them?”
“I think what MOST of the posters who are subscribing to “it’s not my fault” are missing is that it is not usually the ‘health issue causing obesity’ minority of overweight people who are being spoken to. It is the ones who deny that they have any part in their obesity while eating a bag of Oreos after going through some fast-food drive-thru and screaming that no one should DARE say anything about them being overweight (including their loved ones), and insulting women who are naturally thin.”
“To those of you aforementioned, perhaps you should cut the B.S. and spend less time sitting in front of your computer, complaining about how people judge you so harshly while eating food that you KNOW is making you overweight and instead go buy some produce and hit the treadmill.”
“but rather those who simply do not do the work required to get to a healthy weight.”
“And yes, some women are still healthy at a larger size, but that size usually will not reach beyond an 18. ”
is not:
-Judgmental
-Hateful towards fat people as a group, and fat women in particular
-Shaming and critical towards fat people as a group, and fat women in particular
You say that you don’t hate fat people, that you don’t judge fat people, but your own words say just the opposite. Prejudging people and clinging to stereotypes about them after those stereotypes have been disproved (and the disproving backed up with scientific studies) speaks to a deep hatred of that group. Seriously. Brushing aside supportive links (that lead to actual scientific studies, btw) as irrelevant to the argument doesn’t win you any points and actually detracts from your arguments.
Also? Pointing out supposed grammar or English “mistakes” or “abuses” is an oft-used tactic of an internet troll. Yanno. So if you don’t want to come across as a troll, you might want to avoid it.
I said what I said about you being republican/conservative or libertarian because of all the personal responsibility lines you spouted in your comment. That’s a big line in those circles – personal responsibility. Never mind that there are circumstances beyond personal control that affects people’s lives, if their lives suck they are just not taking enough personal responsibility! That’s the catchword of the day, after all.
If someone goes bankrupt from developing cancer, too bad, they should have planned better!
If someone was born poor without access to the opportunities that would allow them to escape being poor, too bad, they should have just taken more personal responsibility and pulled themselves up by their bootstraps!
If someone is suckered by a big company, too bad! They should have taken more personal responsibility and been smarter in their choices!
If a fat person says they eat and exercise just like thin people do but they are still fat, they must be lying and “stuffing their faces with oreos” – otherwise they wouldn’t still be fat! It’s all under their control, after all, except for that “small minority” you keep talking about. They just aren’t taking enough personal responsibility for their situation!
If someone who is fat has tried all of the diets under the sun and they didn’t work, of course it’s not the diets – the fat person isn’t taking personal responsibility! They aren’t exercising their willpower!
If a fat person wants to actually enjoy life and not be miserable all the time, too bad! They need to take more personal responsibility and own up to their situation that they need to be aware of their weight, eating and exercise habits 24 hours a day, seven days a week if that’s what it takes!
If a fat person dares to want clothing that fits well and is marketed to them appropriately, how dare they! They need to take more personal responsibility and either change themselves to fit marketer’s ideas of what they should look like, or just shut up and deal with it!
Those “If” examples were sarcasm, btw. In case I was being too subtle.
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@ Mary – Perhaps I dislike the butchering of my language as an attempt to be “cute” just as much as I dislike the taking things completely out of context in order to suit their purpose. You proved just now what you actually saw in my text and dismissed the rest of it, and that is why you will never be heard by the people you so want to hear you.
I actually did look at the links you sent. That doesn’t mean I agreed with them. Just because other people aren’t posting links doesn’t mean they ignored yours. It just means they don’t need links to prove what it’s widely known already, especially when the predominant attitude seems to be, “We’ve heard it all before.”
If you work at being healthier, good for you (and anyone else of any size), as I was clear about. That doesn’t mean everyone does. If an underweight girl starves herself to feel superior, it doesn’t mean we all do. You don’t like the generalizations, then don’t support them. Speaking up against people who aren’t like you and being silent for the ones who are is supporting one-sided generalizations.
If you knew me, you would know that I happen to be a very compassionate person when people don’t provoke me otherwise. When provoked, however, I will not sit idly by and be expected to take it because I am different from your ‘group’. I’m thin, so therefore I should be O.K. with being told I’m not attractive because my breasts are small, or my hips are narrow, or that “men want curves”? And not say anything about what many people see (i.e. that overweight person who just ordered two portions rather than just the one they really need like anyone else, which is a pretty frequent occurrence, and if you tell me that’s judging a person I will tell you it only means that I have eyes which function normally) when confronted with “it’s not my fault” and “how can people be so thin if they’re not starving themselves in order to conform”. I could care less what someone eats, when they eat it or how much of it, or if they weight a thousand pounds UNTIL they find it appropriate to insult me for being their opposite with no provocation from me personally (how could I have provoked it before I even commented?).
I notice you still made no mention of the “thin hating” generalizations going on, which is quite telling in and of itself. Please continue to keep quoting me out of context. Maybe it will work next time.
If personal responsibility is the word of the day, then perhaps you should look at Islandgirl, who is a very good example of someone who isn’t ashamed of admitting something that she may not feel comfortable with. If you, after all this discussion, still think that I am speaking about about YOUR struggle with YOUR weight in YOUR situation, then you are much denser than I had previously imagined you to be. If you didn’t get that much of what I said was in response to the insults I saw when I initially came here and that I was pointing out that blatant double standard of behavior, then you are beyond hope. Were it not for them, I wouldn’t have commented at all. *shrug* Bravo for making me, and apparently others, certain that you find the behavior acceptable as long as it’s people like yourself who are doing it.
As for comments that include “polishing a turd”, they are as unnecessary and rude as any of the others like them, regardless of which side of the argument the posters are on. Just because I am vocal about the insults by some of the plus sized women here does not mean that I support that type of behavior toward them, either. It doesn’t help anything and only widens the divide. It probably is part of the reason that Mary here can’t grasp that I’m not a typical “fat hater”.
@ Disturbed
I’ve been wondering why you’re so vitriolic towards fat people. I think I finally understand.
You claim to be against the people with double standards, that you hate the b.s. that is prevalent towards thin people, but I think you just can’t see past it. That is the impression I’m getting, anyways. And quite frankly, I can understand that. When you’ve been hurt, you want to lash out, it’s instinctual. Unfortunately, you’re not lashing out at the correct people, or at least not *only* at the correct people.
I haven’t yet addressed what you’ve said about thin people facing just as much bias as fat people because frankly I have nothing against your stance in that regard. People can be ugly and mean towards each other with no provocation, as you and other commenters on this post have so aptly demonstrated. What I do have a problem with is you claiming to be on the receiving end of a double standard as a thin person and then using that to spew hate and vitriol towards fat people as a group. You say you’ve experienced that treatment from some people who happen to be fat and you appear to now attribute that behavior to an entire group, aside from the small minority who get a pass because you agree that they *may* have health issues that contribute to their weight. You say “Just because I am vocal about the insults by some of the plus sized women here does not mean that I support that type of behavior toward them, either,” but you continue to do it, again and again.
You did not take the stance of merely defending against the insults to thin people, which would not have provoked the response from me that you’ve received. On the contrary, if you had stuck just to that, you likely would have gotten support from me. I don’t like grown people having to shop in the jrs or kids department any more than I like size 20 women having to shop at specialty shops and having to choose between ugly and ill fitting or out of their personal price range. However, instead of sticking to just complaints about the insults to thin people, you started in on insults and hatred towards fat people as a group. (As I’ve previously pointed out, not going to go over it again.) And then you get all defensive and say you were “provoked.” Note that in all my comments, I’ve never said anything about “skinny bitches” or “I hate thin people.” Yours, however, did. It’s also telling that a majority of your comments have included descriptions of fat people – that the majority of them are unhealthy, that they need to take personal responsibility, etc ad nauseum.
You cannot expect people to take what you say as fact unless it is backed up. The words “It just means they don’t need links to prove what it’s widely known already” is, to be perfectly frank, fallacious and ludicrous. You’ve based most of your statements about the behaviors of fat people on stereotypes that are not only not verified, but have been actively contradicted. Simply saying a variant of “everyone knows” does not automatically make what you say verifiable.
You say that “I could care less what someone eats, when they eat it or how much of it, or if they weight a thousand pounds UNTIL they find it appropriate to insult me for being their opposite with no provocation from me personally (how could I have provoked it before I even commented?).” However your comments prove you wrong. As I’ve said before, you don’t know the majority of fat people, they’ve never interacted with you at all, and yet you already have a prejudgement in your mind that most fat people got that way due to overeating and a sedentary lifestyle. This is a stereotype, as I’ve proven with links to articles and scientific studies. You say that this stereotype is “widely known to be true,” but you offer no support for it, you do not back it up. More telling, you dismiss evidence that contradicts it. These are all signs of prejudicial behavior. Hence the term “bigot.”
You also continue to fall back on common troll tactics. Pointing out mistakes or “abuses” of grammar/language, and now claiming that you don’t have to prove your opinions because they are “widely known.” This is not helping your case.
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The statistics in this article can be deceiving. The average model weighs 23% less than the average female in 2012 mostly due to the fact that the average female in 2012 now weighs 160 lbs. 20 years ago the average female weighed 138.9. There has been a 22 pound increase in the “average” weight of females in the US. While I also find the appearance of many runway models shocking, that does not mean that Americans, both male and female, don’t need to practice more restraint in their dietary habits.
you show some good quality stuff as it does not matter how big or small your body but sa long as you happy.
keep up the good work
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I’m a guy, and when I read this, I’m thinking “It’s about God-damned time!” Frankly, I’m sick of the media’s idea of women. I’m sick of women’s idea of women. And I’m especially sick of what women think about what kind of women men want.
Fit is hot. Skinny is not.
Whatever “fit” means for you. You got curves? Fine have curves. Be good with that. I want someone that’s healthy and comfortable in her skin. If I think she’s beautiful, she needs to be able to believe it. I’m so freaking tired of being told I’m wrong when I say someone’s beautiful because of the size label on their f-ing pants. Worse still, I’m tired of the relationship being sabotaged by them because they’re uncomfortable being around someone that admires them (curves and all) when they clearly don’t.
You know why you meet so many guys that only want the anorexic-skinny women? BECAUSE THAT’S WHAT YOU BELIEVE MEN WANT. We’re not something that can be stereotyped any more than you are. Some women watch TV, some women don’t. Some women vote republican, some women don’t. Some women sew, some women don’t. Some women ride motorcycles, some women don’t. Some women like skinny guys, some women don’t. If your crotch doesn’t control who you are, why would you assume ours does?
YOU SEE WHAT YOU WANT TO SEE. A friend of mine once got someone pregnant. Until then, he’d gone years without noticing anybody that was. Afterwards, he commented on how almost every woman he saw was pregnant. He couldn’t believe all the pregnant women around. I could relate because I recently went shopping for a car. I wanted something specific, and once I started looking for it, I saw it everywhere.
What kills me is the number of women I’ve personally loved who refused to allow themselves to be loved because they simply wouldn’t let themselves believe they could be. I’d tell them I loved them and they’d tell me I didn’t and all the reasons why I didn’t. Then they’d complain TO ME that nobody loved them and how they had to fit inside of some mold that didn’t fit in order to be loved while I’m sitting there going “WTF?” Do you have any idea how surreal that is? Do you have any idea how demeaning it is to put your heart on the line by loving someone only to be told by that person that’s wrong for stupid reasons like a size label? It’s one thing to love someone who doesn’t love you back. It’s entirely another to love someone who can’t be loved because they don’t love themselves. It’s almost like loving someone who’s dying from cancer in that you love them and they love you, but you’re watching watching them being eaten from within by something you have no control over until eventually it rips them away from you.
Everybody has beliefs and everybody spends most of their time looking for evidence reinforcing their beliefs so that they don’t feel crazy, only changing those beliefs when they’re forced to change them. Convince yourself that the guy who’ll love you for you is out there and you’ll find him. Because he is. You’re just not looking for him. You’re looking for the guy that matches what you want to believe about him. If all of the guys at the bar want that anorexic skinny woman, LOOK SOMEWHERE ELSE. Because while guys that don’t like skinny bar women may occasionally go to bars, why would we keep going where there’s no chance of finding what we want? Why would you? You shop for groceries at Victoria’s Secret? Neither do we.
We want you. Look for those of us that want you and then let us want you. But you’ve got to start by wanting yourselves.
I would like to state a point on behalf of “skinny” people. I’m 26, 5’2, 96 lbs, and I stopped gaining weight when I was 15. Sure, as a kid, I used to eat extremely unhealthy and my metabolism helped keep me thin but today, I take unbelievable care of myself. I eat incredibly healthy and I dance for a living, usually logging 15 hours of rehearsal a week along with extra gym workouts on the side. And yes, I am by standards, “model thin” and and I have been questioned to have a eating disorder when in realty, I live off of high calories protein shakes and bars, oats, fish, pasta, and anything else that can give me energy, sometimes logging 2500 calories a day. I, too, have always had a ridiculous time finding clothes that fit me, mostly resulting with me shopping in the kids department for the most non juvenile things I can find. And like many plus size people, I was horrendously made fun of growing up and into my early twenties as being the girl with the body of a 12 year old, how do you think that helped my self esteem? I am in no way unhealthy, if I stopped working out tomorrow, I’d still be a stick, and it’s not fair that people act like there is something wrong with me just because I am not ‘real woman’ sized. Yes, I do think there are many runway models that are probably starving themselves, but to ostracize all of them for something that very well may just be a natural thing like me or a product of hard work and dedication is ridiculous. Many people might find an issue with a size 6 being considered plus size, which I agree, is pushing it, but on my end, a size 00 almost always still doesn’t fit me, so how do you think I feel when even the smallest thing they make don’t fit me either. There is no such thing as a ‘real woman body’, all women should be accepted for who they naturally are and be loved for it. I am sick and tired of not being called a ‘real woman’ just because I can sit on the couch all day and eat pizza and not gain weight, it’s not fair to me and it’s not fair to other naturally thin people to be portrayed in such a negative light.
There is a difference between overweight and morbidly obese. There is a difference between health problems (a lot of which are brought in by the weight, mind you), heredity, and just plain laziness. And if people would pay more attention to WHAT and HOW MUCH they eat… Also, as for that anorexic BMI thing. I am technically in thy category. I eat all the time. Some people are just naturally thin and can’t help it but get mocked for it anyways.
I have been a “girl watcher” for over 65 years, and I have no style preferences. I DO find that ladies who look like adult females are the most attractive. The ladies that appear more like 12 year-old boys, like many models today, are a bit rediculous. I also believe that the sizes should be an unchanging standard, shared by all labels. Now even us guys have to try a pair of jeans, because a 32″ waist can be 34″ in some lines. With a reasonably healthy diet and a normal amount of activity, a lady who carries herself with pride will look her best, and look beautiful.
I stopped reading the comments after I skimmed through a bunch of them, and I feel the need to offer a quick reply. For those of you who are quick to blame overweight people for their condition, I will offer you a firsthand account that we are all different. Being healthy does not equal being skinny. I have a chronic hormone disorder that does not allow my body to process things as others normally would. I could go out to eat with my friends and if we all ate the same things, I would gain more weight from whatever the meal was. On daily basis, I avoid sugars, simple carbs, processed foods, fatty/fried foods, etc. As well, I maintain a balance of carbs, protein, etc and eat mass amounts of vegetables. I log everything I eat, and maintain a certain caloric intake daily. Everyday I try to exercise 3omin to an hour or so. Despite all of that, I am a size 16. If you would like to tell me that my weight is my problem when I have battled depression over the condition that plagues my body, shame on you. Nobody knows what anyone else is going through. Hormone disorders, thyroid issues, depression, autoimmune disorders, mental illness, financial status, and then some are all just some examples of factors affecting a woman’s weight. It is certainly not right for an outsider to place blame on a woman who already has to ask herself every day, why don’t I look like everyone else? Why don’t any clothes fit me the right way? How come I cannot eat anything outside of a strict diet, and all I do is maintain a perpetual overweight status. When you have experienced that every day, then we can talk. Until then please stop telling me that this is a “health issue.” I will take my strict diet over the fried food diet my “skinny” friends subscribe to. Thank you and have a nice day!